Gearbox driveshaft flanges

[Marlow Sud]

Hi guys,

Can anyone advise if the driveshaft flanges are the same on a 1.5ti gearbox and a 1.2ti gearbox?

Ie: both have flanges like this
[attachment=0]image.jpg[/attachment

The reason for the question is, if I get a big brake kit fitted to my 1.2ti box, can I order the same kit and fit it to a car with a 1.5ti box.

Any help much appreciated.

Brgds
Simon

[justsuds]

The only difference is that the early cars had a flange as per your picture, and later cars had a flange that was a full circle without the cut outs.
John.

[amichie]

Later one is 6 bolt early one is 4 bolt. Just have a look and see what you have.

[sudboy1490]

What John said, there's no difference in fitment of the flanges. Amichie is talking about brake discs I think!

[Marlow Sud]

Great advice thanks guys. Crystal clear.

Now here is a double check if you don't mind. I think this is the case but just want to check.

The earlier Sud driveshafts are attached with six socket head screws straight to the gearbox driveshaft flange.
The later Sud driveshafts are attached with six socket head screws which pass through the disc and clamp the disc between the driveshaft and gearbox driveshaft flange.

1. Are the driveshafts the same length?
2. Does the earlier Sud have two spacers between the driveshaft and gearbox flange?
3. Does the later Sud have one spacer and the thickness of the disc?

Thanks again.

Simon

[justsuds]

Colin is the expert on this, but, I think series 1 cars had a longer drive shaft with no spacer, series 2 cars had shorter drive shaft with 20mm spacer, later series 3 cars had same length drive shaft as series 2, but with 10mm spacer and 10mm brake disc. Alfa went to 6 hole brake disc because there was a problem with the mounting lugs braking off the 4 hole discs.......
John.

[Kegsti66]

Simon,
My 1200 ti has no spacers between the drive shafts if that is of any help.

[junior]

Great thread and right on time for me, thank you ! So is this a S3 drive shaft and what do I need to attach it to a 1.5 ti box ?

I do not seem to have any spacers and the flanges on the box are 6 hole ones.

I have two of these and one early one is there any advantage to one or the other and will all hubs fit.

I have inboard brakes.

Thanks in advance.

[sudboy1490]

John's got it right there, although am not sure if the actual shafts vary in length on the earlier cars or its just that they have a wider attachments flange on the gearbox end!

[junior]

Hi Simon.

Just looked at my photo and questions and realised how rudely I have shoved in on your thread.

Very sorry I had just come down from my shed looking at bits and then saw your post and thoughtlessly leapt on.

Apologies. Junior.

[Marlow Sud]

Blimey Junior. I think your comments and pic are great. the more the merrier.

Thanks to Keith as well. No spacers! I am going to post some pics of what I have got.

All the best,
Simon

[Marlow Sud]

1974 1.3ti with 1.5ti gearbox and S3 discs.

One spidery looking spacer.

Brgds
Simon

[Marlow Sud]

Thick spidery spacer:

Thin spidery spacer:

[KevJTD]

all good info guys.
i have also seen inner CV joints with a spacer inside the end cap.....just to throw a spanner in the works
i have a dozen or so used shafts in my unit, one day i'll get around to inspecting them to find out the differences.

[Kegsti66]

This is how mine looks.

[Spacenut]

I was going to say, it is the thickness of the spider spacers that differs between configurations. For example, I started with a Series 2 1.5 Ti gearbox and driveshafts, with 4-hole discs and thick spider spacers bolted direct to the driveshaft flange. I then replaced the gearbox with a S3 Gold Cloverleaf but retained the same driveshafts, discs and spider spacers. I then replaced the discs with later 6-hole items, using the thin spider spacers provided. Same S2 driveshafts.

My current arrangement is a 1.2 Ti gearbox, with the later (stronger) full-circle driveshaft flanges, and have gone back to 4-hole discs (lighter than the 6-hole variety, and they a less heavily loaded in my application) with thick spider spacers and the same S2 driveshafts.

I don't believe there is any difference in length between S1, S2 and S3 driveshafts.

Lauren

[dralf1965]

No difference in driveshaft lengths, i agree. You just need to use the correct spacer.

[Marlow Sud]

Lovely shot Keith. Really nice to see a car that is so clean.

Good advice thanks guys. I definitely have a car that uses two spacers on each side? I will take a picture of the driveshaft flanges of five different cars and post the pics here.

I have a couple of new driveshafts in my garage. They are 490mm long. The following pics show where i measured from:

Brgds,
Simon

[Kegsti66]

Lovely shot Keith. Really nice to see a car that is so clean.
Brgds,
Simon

That was when I put it together Simon. It isn't that clean now.

[Spacenut]

I have a couple of new driveshafts in my garage. They are 490mm long.

Hi Simon - don't forget the driveshafts have a "plunge joint" which allows them to expand and contract along their length to compensate for geometry variations during suspension travel. The main thing to watch out for is that the driveshaft does not "bottom out" (i.e. run out of travel) at any point in the suspension arc, or you will place unacceptable strain on the gearbox halfshafts. Ditto for a shaft that is too short.

It may be that you have two thin spider spacers back-to-back to make one thick one. If you have a 4-lug brake disc I would say that is the answer.

Lauren

[Spacenut]

This is how mine looks.

Keith, that is outstanding! I love it - but interestingly, there doesn't appear to be a spider spacer on your driveshaft. The inner joint appears to be a lot deeper and looks like it mates directly to the drive flange. Or are you using a thicker brake disc? Something is different...

Lauren

[Marlow Sud]

I have a couple of new driveshafts in my garage. They are 490mm long.

Hi Simon - don't forget the driveshafts have a "plunge joint" which allows them to expand and contract along their length to compensate for geometry variations during suspension travel. The main thing to watch out for is that the driveshaft does not "bottom out" (i.e. run out of travel) at any point in the suspension arc, or you will place unacceptable strain on the gearbox halfshafts. Ditto for a shaft that is too short.

It may be that you have two thin spider spacers back-to-back to make one thick one. If you have a 4-lug brake disc I would say that is the answer.

Lauren

Good point Lauren. I should have thought of that. So the driveshafts will have a max and min dimension for length.

All the best,
Simon

[Kegsti66]

This is how mine looks.

Keith, that is outstanding! I love it - but interestingly, there doesn't appear to be a spider spacer on your driveshaft. The inner joint appears to be a lot deeper and looks like it mates directly to the drive flange. Or are you using a thicker brake disc? Something is different...

Lauren

Oh dear Lauren, I won't sleep now....
My car went back together the reverse as it came apart. CV joints were checked, re-greased and new boots. New discs and that was it. . I even have the disc shrouds as well.
I do find sometimes that I see other cars and there are differences, but I just think it is AR development. I think that my car was very original when I dismantled it (apart from the colour), one previous owner but as it was an early car (May '75) the majority of cars have changes that ran for longer. That is what most people remember.
You would not believe the number of people who I hear telling fellow viewers , " the only thing missing is the stickers on the 1/4 panels, it should have them" or "it hasn't got the bonnet prop".
It didn't have them!! (It has a prop now but it shouldn't / didn't).
They don't notice the chrome indicators or trim around the repeaters.
This thread is interesting as I never knew they used spacers.
I love this forum.

[junior]

Hi
All very interesting, but I seem to have got lost along the way.

So if all the shafts are the same length, and I have a 1.5ti box with a 6 hole drive flange then what spacers do people think I should be using

or what measured length should I be aiming for ?

Keith the underside of your car was/is amazing. Was there anything the factory put a better finish on than you ?

[KevJTD]

kieth, not sure if you caught my earlier post, may well be what your car has.
i remember taking some shafts apart and finding a spacer inside the inner cv, inside the end cap....unless i'm dreaming???
could well be, easily confused

[Marlow Sud]

Hi
All very interesting, but I seem to have got lost along the way.

So if all the shafts are the same length, and I have a 1.5ti box with a 6 hole drive flange then what spacers do people think I should be using

or what measured length should I be aiming for ?

Keith the underside of your car was/is amazing. Was there anything the factory put a better finish on than you ?

Hi Junior,
If you look at my picture above, you can see that this car utilises the thinner spidery spacer (hope to measure the thickness for you). It has a 1.5ti gearbox and the discs that are the later type retained with the six socket head screws. I measured the thickness of the disc between the gearbox driveshaft flange face and the outside face where the spidery spacer sits - its 13mm thick.
I will get some more info on other cars.
If you look at Keiths driveshaft the inner cad coated cap is considerably wider than the outer one. Other driveshafts have equal width cad coated caps. The thread supposition is he is hiding a spidery spacer in that inner cap!

Brgds,
Simon

[Kegsti66]

Ah ha !!
What Kev said.
Cheers guys, I can't work out who is helping who here.
Have to admit I never realised the inner part had a spacer in it..............these cars eh ?

[Marlow Sud]

S1,1.5ti gearbox - S3 disc, one small spidery spacer.

S2 1.5ti - S2 disc, one large spidery spacer.

S3 1.5ti - S3 disc, one small spidery spacer.

Brgds
Simon

[junior]

Brilliant Simon.

Many thanks indeed for your efforts.

I went and looked at what the single earlier drive shaft had and it has the small spacer, but also it has lots of damage to the screws
as though someone has been using it for racing and it got a bit bashed.
Perhaps on the big discs coming loose which is why they had so much effort put into ensuring they stayed put this time.

So looking at your pictures that seems a viable option, so shall go for that set up, but with the newer shafts and just check the lengths.

Thanks again, James

[Spacenut]

I went and looked at what the single earlier drive shaft had and it has the small spacer, but also it has lots of damage to the screws
as though someone has been using it for racing and it got a bit bashed.
Perhaps on the big discs coming loose which is why they had so much effort put into ensuring they stayed put this time.

The Allen head set screws often work loose as they have to withstand a lot of torque from braking as well as acceleration. A friend of mine was always shearing the bolts on his 1.5 Ti. They are supposed to be torqued to 25 lb/ft IIRC and thread locked. I have used a Loctite product in the past to lock the bolts down, but the last time I just torqued them down to the correct value, with no subsequent problems.

I wasn't dumping the clutch at 6,000 rpm though...

Lauren