Classic Alfa Forums

Some of yyou might know the car already. It was running the last few years in the RCN, a german touring car championship.
The installed 160016V engine was damaged last year and could not be repaired. The car ist still without engine, but the plan is to build a 1800 8V engine for racing in the RCN.
As I´m currently into another procect (Lancia Fulvia race car), which will be hopefully finished soon, there was unfortunately no time for a new Sprint engine so far..





regards from germany

Ali

Hi
Welcome aboard

Yeah I remember your car! 1.8 will be fun good luck with the build

sprint looks awesome

i'd love to see pics of the fulvia race car

Johnboy wrote: Welcome aboard

Thanks..

KevJTD wrote:sprint looks awesome

i'd love to see pics of the fulvia race car

Thanks again, the Fulvia isn´t finished yet, so there are just a few pics of the engine and one from the lovely back of the car..

Very nice ! That manifold is a work of art

V4 engine - absolutely gorgeous!! I have always just really liked the idea of a V4 engine. There is just something inherently right about that configuration for me. Not sure if I would swap it for a flat 4 - but it must be nice only having one set of heads to deal with. In my mind one is on a par with the other. Both great engine configurations in my mind.

Out of interest I have just had an 1800 bottom end built for my 33 and am due to put the heads on this weekend.

Happy to share details of the build when you are ready…..

what a peach, love the crackle finish on the cam cover.
the V4 is a very interesting engine, lovely little unit.

great stuff

Hi Ali,

sorry to hear about your engine mate.
Last time I saw posts about your Sprint, was when you damaged the front and repaired it.

What went wrong with the engine ? Piston Rods ?

Edward wrote: Out of interest I have just had an 1800 bottom end built for my 33 and am due to put the heads on this weekend.

Happy to share details of the build when you are ready…..

Do you use steel crank ore standard one? Which pistons you use, JE?

Supercharged16v wrote: What went wrong with the engine ? Piston Rods ?

Cracks in both bore on the right side of the engine. I enlarged from 84 up to 87 mm to get exactly 1598 cc with the 67 mm crank.
But wall thickness became to thinn. Enlarging the bores b 3 mm is too much..
Both cylinders were filled with water und timing belt snapped off

Morning

Most people use je 89 mm pistons ! These are what I'm using for my future build too

89 mm is the right dimension for 1800 cc engine. But this one was an 1600.
There are 2 ways to go for 1600 cc: 84 mm bore with 72 mm stroke gives you 1596 cc.
87 mm bore with 67,2 mm stroke gives you 1598 cc. The last version works great, but just with new and not rebored 1712 cc blocks.
I was lucky to find an almost new 1712 engine in the Netherlands. So I will try another 1600 16V beside the 1800 8V

Yep, I used 89mm JE pistons that I ordered and came over from the States in the summer.

I used a standard crank, that I had thoroughly line and crack tested.

Work is slow progress due to availability of parts / time / and access to engineering etc.

Hopefully making some decent progress before starting to work out cam options.

I've heard about blocks cracking before, but at 87mm ???

I mean, the 1.7 16v engine is 87mm stock !

I've got JE 89mm pistons with standard crank , havent had a problem so far and I do push the car everytime I use it.

Should I be worried ?

Supercharged16v wrote:I've heard about blocks cracking before, but at 87mm ???

I mean, the 1.7 16v engine is 87mm stock !

It´s a race car. Class ends at 1600 cc, not at 1615 cc. Limit for 1600 cc ist 87,00 mm, not 87,2 mm or more. Most 87 mm blocks are worn, so You can´t use them anymore to get 1600 cc. Like I told before there are 2 ways to go. Find a new 87,00 mm block or enlarge a 84 mm block.
But the cylinder walls tend to crack, when enlarging more than 2 mm. It doesn´t matter, whether 84 mm or 87 mm blocks.

Supercharged16v wrote:I've got JE 89mm pistons with standard crank , havent had a problem so far and I do push the car everytime I use it.

Should I be worried ?

standard cranks tend to break at permanent revs from more than 7500 U/min. I made a candlestick from the last one..

I've got my limiter set to 7500 rpm

I absolutely love this car! Well done on preparing such a fab Sprint.

What sort of power are you aiming for from the 1800 8v?

....and what have you managed to get the car's weight down to please?

Jube wrote: What sort of power are you aiming for from the 1800 8v?

170-175 should be possible

Jube wrote:....and what have you managed to get the car's weight down to please?

There are fiberglass doors, hoods and fenders installed, the glass panes were out of the windscreen replaced by makrolon

Fabulous car - I still enjoy watching your lap of the 'Ring on Youtube. Sorry to hear that your block fractured

I have an engine that I am working on that uses the standard 1.5 block with 1.7 crankshaft and special pistons. Longer stroke length, so not the way to go for racing, but for road use, it should be good

Loving the Fulvia too, I see your exhaust manifolds compensate for the slightly longer bores on one side, that should squeeze a bit more power! Can you equalise the inlet manifold length using the same technique? You could use motorbike carbs perhaps, or four single-chokes...

Of course, my favourite home for one of these snorty little engines was in the legendary Stratos Zero...

http://74fdc.files.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... iagram.jpg

Legend has it that Nuccio Bertone was so worried about what Lancia management would say about the car, that he took all the parts from a crashed Fulvia saloon. Then he drove the car from Grugliasco to Turin and slid straight under the security barrier!

Lauren

902a wrote:

Jube wrote: What sort of power are you aiming for from the 1800 8v?

170-175 should be possible

Jube wrote:....and what have you managed to get the car's weight down to please?

There are fiberglass doors, hoods and fenders installed, the glass panes were out of the windscreen replaced by makrolon

Thanks Ali, your Sprint will have a pretty impressive power to weight ratio when the engine's fitted.

What brake setup are you using on the car please? (Inboard / Outboard)

Also, do you have any pictures of your interior please? It'd be great to see how your roll cage sits in your car.

Spacenut wrote:Can you equalise the inlet manifold length using the same technique? You could use motorbike carbs perhaps, or four single-chokes...

car is prepared as a historic race car to fulfill FIA specifications according to appendix K, so other carbs than the homologated ones are not allowed

Jube wrote:
What brake setup are you using on the car please? (Inboard / Outboard)

to keep unsprung weight as low as possible, I use inboard brakes. After several attempts with Brembo and Hispec calipers, I decided to go with Wilwood dynalite II with 267 mm Tarox ventilated discs

Jube wrote:Also, do you have any pictures of your interior please? It'd be great to see how your roll cage sits in your car.

sure..

nice brakes, really nice

nice cage, very nice


! !

That's a great car
With the inboard brakes do they run hotter as there behind the engine and with manifold around them ? Or is there enough air flow to cool them as there bigger than standard ?

Thanks very much for the pictures Ali.

I LOVE the front Willwod caliper upgrade - Is it a kit that's readily available or have you made up custom brackets to get them to fit please?

I'm SOOO tempted to convert my Sprint into a track car after seeing your fab interior! Is the cage an OMP item with additional welded in tube sections?

Thanks again,
Julian.

Johnboy wrote: With the inboard brakes do they run hotter as there behind the engine and with manifold around them ? Or is there enough air flow to cool them as there bigger than standard ?

I have not really much experience on stop and go tracks as f.e. Zolder/Belgium, at Nürburgring-Nordschleife I have no probs with brake-overheating, provided, you use the right brake pads. You have to take some care about gear box temperature, paticular with lsd. But the sump plate with cooling fins from Alfa 145 solved ths problem..

Jube wrote:
I LOVE the front Willwod caliper upgrade - Is it a kit that's readily available or have you made up custom brackets to get them to fit please?

both disc pot and caliper brackets are custom made, and it was not an easy job.

Jube wrote: Is the cage an OMP item with additional welded in tube sections?

well seen.., it´s a modified OMP roll cage

Hi Ali, what size wheels (width and offset in particular) and tyres are you running on your car please?

Have you rolled/cut your arches to prevent the tyres from rubbing?

Thanks again.

Oh yes and I forgot to ask if your front spoiler is a custom item please?

....Sooo many questions to ask!

Jube wrote:Hi Ali, what size wheels (width and offset in particular) and tyres are you running on your car please?

wheel size is 13x7", offset 20 , slicks and rain tyres are Michelin 20/54-13

Jube wrote:Have you rolled/cut your arches to prevent the tyres from rubbing?

standard rear arches are cut out and arches from VW Golf mk1 welded in, but have to cut out again for the use of extensions for 13x8" wheels

Jube wrote:Oh yes and I forgot to ask if your front spoiler is a custom item please?

Frontspoiler is taken from GTV6 with custom made splitter

Cheers Ali.

Jube wrote:Have you rolled/cut your arches to prevent the tyres from rubbing?

standard rear arches are cut out and arches from VW Golf mk1 welded in, but have to cut out again for the use of extensions for 13x8" wheels

What extensions are you planning to put on your Sprint - Trofeo body kit maybe?

Jube wrote: What extensions are you planning to put on your Sprint - Trofeo body kit maybe?

Probably yes, they lie around now for more than 10 years. I think it´s time to get them to the car

902a wrote:

Jube wrote: What extensions are you planning to put on your Sprint - Trofeo body kit maybe?

Probably yes, they lie around now for more than 10 years. I think it´s time to get them to the car

It's a difficult one in my opinion.

I love the Trofeo body kit BUT your Sprint looks absolutely fabulous the way it is in my opinion.

I understand the extra wheel and tyre width that the Trofeo arch enables you to have but it looks so good the way it is now.

I've been swaying from standard look to Trofeo with mine but I think yours in it's current guise has persuaded me where to go.

Did you get your Trofeo body kit from Fabrica Italiana in Portugal? I don't know of anywhere else that makes the Trofeo kit for the Sprint.