Classic Alfa Forums

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:49 am**

petrolhead wrote:Good Tip mate,

hope i never need it, but good all the same! ha ha!

shrew

the clutch slave is a real pita as they get really stuck fast. there's an open cavity in the space where they sit, only touch at the front and back. you'd think that'd make it easier to get it out but it just makes a nice space for the corrosion to build up!
loads of copper grease will go back in, messy but needed.

done a bit more tonight but mainly cleaning and painting bits, nothing exciting

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:09 pm**

another night, another few hours down the shed.
home from home down the bottom of my garden you know

sprayed a few more bits so progress on the rebuild should be able to plod on, bits have arrived from rockauto today so pretty much nothing stopping me now, apart from time.
one last piece that's needed will hopefully be solved tomorrow night.
heads are all stripped down which is the easy bit, building them back up and lapping in the valves is the time consuming bit.
pistons still need cleaning ready for the new rings.

bores were honed to get rid of the glaze, the difference it makes is clear to see on the pics.

crank re-fitted back in and torqued down though so progress of sorts, hope to crack on at the weekend and make some inroads into getting it back in one piece.

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:03 am**

Good work. I really like 33's but have yet to drive one. Is there a big difference in feel to a Sud?

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:18 am**

These pictures will come in very handy for my future boxer build ! Keep them coming Kev

I take it you hone the bores yourself and how hard is it to change the valve stem seals?

Cheers John

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:35 am**

Looking good!
what kind of equipment did you use for the honing?

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:00 pm**

Nice work. Takes me back to when I did mine. I find it quite therapeutic rebuilding an engine.

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:45 pm**

i use this type of honing tool.
there are other types but i find these work well and last well.
VERY important to lubricate them well before and during use.
douse the stones with wd40 or similar before use, they soak it up no end, then spray inside the cylinder bore all around. insert the tool (now mounted in your drill) and rotate at a fairly slow speed keep it rotating whilst going up and down the bore, so it creates more of a diagonal scoring than just flat lines, called cross hatch pattern. keep spraying the wd40 directly into the bore/over the tool whilst your doing it to stop the stones drying out.

valve stem seals can be tricky to get out as they sit deep in, will add that post when the time comes, not done them yet

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LARGE-BRAKE-P ... 3cd8524527

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:06 pm**

Thanks. Will look for one.

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:09 pm**

Cheers for that Kev

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:49 am**

ed5000 wrote:Good work. I really like 33's but have yet to drive one. Is there a big difference in feel to a Sud?

Depends on what state the car is in.

If you are comparing the S3 Sud Ti with the S2 33 Ti, then the Sud has a bit better handling but the 33 feels more solid. Power is about the same.

Comparing the S2 or even S1 Sud 4 door etc with the single carb engine, to the S2 33, then the Sud feels more nimble but 33 feels like its got bigger @@@@@

S3 33 which is 1.5 8v and catalytic, you need to get a really good one, otherwise in just feels like riding a donkey :/

Best possible options in my experience, in regards of power and handling, are either :

S3 Sud Ti
S2 33 Ti
or S3 16v 33 Non Cat !

I put these cars in the same category in terms of fun

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:12 am**

Or a s2 33 with non cat 16v

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 pm**

I think I'd like an early 33 to keep with my sud. They seem to be even harder than sud's to find nowadays though.

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:50 pm**

Supercharged16v wrote:
ed5000 wrote:Good work. I really like 33's but have yet to drive one. Is there a big difference in feel to a Sud?

Depends on what state the car is in.

If you are comparing the S3 Sud Ti with the S2 33 Ti, then the Sud has a bit better handling but the 33 feels more solid. Power is about the same.

Comparing the S2 or even S1 Sud 4 door etc with the single carb engine, to the S2 33, then the Sud feels more nimble but 33 feels like its got bigger @@@@@

S3 33 which is 1.5 8v and catalytic, you need to get a really good one, otherwise in just feels like riding a donkey :/

Best possible options in my experience, in regards of power and handling, are either :

S3 Sud Ti Had one, very nice
S2 33 Ti not had one
or S3 16v 33 Non Cat ! got one, very nice

still to try my S1 sud ti....

I put these cars in the same category in terms of fun

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:28 pm**

bit more done today

bottom end is now about complete.

started off having to clean the pistons and fit the new rings, very important to make sure the ring grooves are cleaned out fully to allow the rings to sit correctly in the pistons.
they were then inserted and torqued up.
next job the front and rear covers were given the new oil seals & gaskets and fitted in place.
the oil pump went in next which needs to be fitted correctly timing wise as it also runs the distributtor.

the front engine mount is only temporary and will be changed for a good one, only fitted to allow the bolts holding the front cover on to be fitted.

freshly painted sump went on next to close up the crankcase

the heads will start to be fettled this week which will take a little while, valves to be lapped in and new stem seals plus everything will need a good clean before it goes back in.

not sure if it will be all back together by next weekend but may well drop the 33's current engine then anyway.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:01 pm**

Nice

Can't remember if you changed the big ends ?

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:17 am**

SteffenJ3316V wrote:Nice Can't remember if you changed the big ends ?

didn't change them. might seem crazy not to but they were all inspected, measured with plastigauge and all well within spec.
mains & big ends.

Posted: **Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:18 pm**

started on one of the heads now, the replacement for the one that had the bent valves and broken valve guides.
these 8 valves have been lapped in, not a task i relish but has to be done.
all stripped down and ready for a good clean in the parts washer, once done it was cleaned and dried as usual.
new valve seals in place, spring plates cleaned and oiled ready for the valves to go back in.

johnboy, you asked a while back about the ease, or not, of removing/installing the valve seals.

with them being sunken down the old traditional way of prising them off with a screwdriver is impossible and hammering back on with a socket is tricky but a bit fiddly

the tool you need is pictured below.

you get a set of long nose pliers with serated teeth that are designed specifically to fit the seals, makes removing them unbelievably easy. a little twist & pull and off they come.

to insert the new seal you select the tool that fits into the valve guide, screw it onto the handle and slide the new seal up the tool. you will notice there is a reccess in the tool where the seal slides up to so the important sealing part isn't damaged when fitting the new seal to the guide, it means when you press the new seal home it's being pressed on the shoulder section.

so just align the tool up into the valve guide and gently tap the tool, you feel when it's driven the seal home, doesn't need a huge force to fit them. gentler is better actually as you can feel it hit home.

tool kits are available on ebay for under £15, well worth the money

Posted: **Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:47 pm**

Cheers for that Kev ! That's perfect top man

Posted: **Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:34 am**

Well Kev, you are just pretty much at the stage I am at with my engine build. And the rate you are going you will be finished well before me. I do have the heads bolted on now, with the valves and seals all in place, but I currently have all of the tappets in pieces on the desk here in front of me. Decided to give each one a thorough clean and remove all of the old oil and varnish. It takes a good couple or 3 evenings work to do it well. Have finally completed it and they are ready to go back into the heads, Well almost. Just waiting or the correct oil to arrive from a friend.

Next it is waiting for parts to arrive, cams, timing belt kits, throttle bodies etc.

It is pretty handy watching you catch up and overtake me as I can then start to follow your lead….

Have been hunting new cams - but now pretty much decided to fit a decent second hand set of standard 16v cams.

Posted: **Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:40 am**

yes, the cams if in good condition are just that, good enough. nothing to be gained from buying new if the old ones are in good order

you're right about things taking time though, tricky to keep going in the evenings after being at work all day

mine will be ready to swap over by next weekend, no point in rushing it for this weekend.

new clutch arrived today so pretty much all the parts are here now

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:00 pm**

Can you check something for me…. do the throttle bodies bolt up onto studs in the head or do normal bolts hold them in place. There is the big single stud but what about the 4 holes on the perimeter of the TB's. I assume they are studs. Any idea if they are the same as exhaust studs. If you can you just get these of fleabay and would you happen to know the size?

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:13 pm**

Edward wrote:Can you check something for me…. do the throttle bodies bolt up onto studs in the head or do normal bolts hold them in place. There is the big single stud but what about the 4 holes on the perimeter of the TB's. I assume they are studs. Any idea if they are the same as exhaust studs. If you can you just get these of fleabay and would you happen to know the size?

the TB's are held down by cap screw bolts ed, allen key jobs.
all will be metric standard M8 thread, anything in that size will fit.
M8 x 1.25.
make sure you don't get the fine thread mate

pic will help

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:35 pm**

Kev,

that's helpful thanks, managed to find those in the bits I have here.

Now missing the 2 x 6mm approx spacers that the throttle bodies sit on and all the injectors. I see you have 2 there, but I bet unlike me - you probably have 2 more somewhere else. Have you put the little rubbers that they sit in safely tucked away somewhere? They are little buggers for falling off and getting lost!

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:37 pm**

Edward.

Alex had some of those spacers......had them made IIRC.

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:39 pm**

Edward wrote:Kev,

that's helpful thanks, managed to find those in the bits I have here.

Now missing the 2 x 6mm approx spacers that the throttle bodies sit on and all the injectors. I see you have 2 there, but I bet unlike me - you probably have 2 more somewhere else. Have you put the little rubbers that they sit in safely tucked away somewhere? They are little buggers for falling off and getting lost!

i've got a few spare injectors if you need any, and the rubber seals

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:47 pm**

can't find my head tightening figures just now for some reason, and my autodata isn't working

the page on alfa145.com refers to 91 - 101 Nm done in 2 or 3 stages.

is that the same for the 33 16V?

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:48 pm**

Seeing Alex tomorrow - have sent him a message and will see what he has available.

Kev, don't suppose you could rustle up 4 injectors perhaps. Could probably do with the complete fuel rail thinking about it….

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:55 pm**

Edward wrote:Seeing Alex tomorrow - have sent him a message and will see what he has available.

Kev, don't suppose you could rustle up 4 injectors perhaps. Could probably do with the complete fuel rail thinking about it….

i have a spare fuel rail with the injectors and seals still on it, postage with something so big won't be cheap though due to the size, but maybe shouldn't be too bad as won't be heavy?

let me know if you get stuck and i'll have a look

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:52 pm**

Kev,

Yep those head tightening figures are correct. As mine is 1800 with high comp pistons we set the torque wrench to approx 100nm and tightened in 3 (more like 6) even stages.

Posted: **Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:14 pm**

bit more done this weekend.

the head that had the damaged valves has been changed for another head as the guides were damaged. thanks tom

so a strip down and clean/lap in all the valves was done.
checked the surface for distortion and all well.
new valve seals fitted, everything oiled and built back up.
bolted that one on this morning so onto the other side which was un-damaged.

still stripped it down and went through the same process though. was some evidence of leaky stem seals so worth the effort despite the seeming hours of toil to get back to the same point!

it's ready to bolt on too so will get cracking on that in the week.

hope to have it ready to swap over by the weekend.

found time to also buy a 147jtd today too, so at least my username is back to being representative!!

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