From Road car to Race car - Alfa 33

[PETROLHEAD]

good luck mate,

no need for the water wings this time then hopefully!

[Brovold]

4th place in race 3, but worked my way up in race 4 to this one...

Video will come later on

[Johnboy]

Well done , great result brovold ! Look forward to the video

[PETROLHEAD]

Brilliant! spot on mate!

[Brovold]

Took me some time to understand that you don't get aquaplaning on a dry day with sun and 25 degrees, so ended 5th in qualification. But after two laps in first race I finally got it, but then the gap was to big. I managed to get back on the rear bumper of no. 3 when the flag came....if it just where one more lap.....

Started 4th in race 2 in my class, managed to take two of them in first corner, and the last (red Alfa 156) in the next loong corner. Was just a matter of keeping the head cool and the white BMW (guest class driving with us) i had up my ass out of my way. It got past in the end, but did'nt slow me down to much.

And the car is still driveable.......!!!

Here is race 4 (race 3 will come later on)

http://youtu.be/tJ8k89KRdi0

[PETROLHEAD]

well done again Brov.

its a mixed bag of competitors isn't it.


what spec is that 75? it looks a quick thing!

[Brovold]

It comes from Sweden and entered our series late last year.

Here is the original built tread I think (nick for builder:"bjurman"):
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engine- ... quirt.html

And here the new one in Norwegian (but a lot of inbord movies):
http://www.corsaitaliana.no/forum/index.php?topic=438.0

A note on the new Norvegian owner/driver, he drove this car for the first time ever on the same track we did this weekend - 3 sec faster then the builder

[Brovold]

And by the way, my name is Pål (Paul for you English speaking folks)

[KevJTD]

hi paul

well done on the race result, great stuff

[Johnboy]

Morning Paul
Great drive and great victory , love your built in g meter. Ie the fluffy dice nice flowing track , that BMW couldn't get away from you

[Brovold]

Thank's again guy's

Here is race 3. Slow start, but happy with the last laps

http://youtu.be/Sdi6je5OeVE

[Brovold]

Qustion:
I now drive with the front anti roll bar installed. Would it be an idea to remove this? Would it help my inner front wheel stay in contact with the ground when cornering?

I know I want a slip diff for Xmas, but until then...

Pål

[PETROLHEAD]

Qustion:
I now drive with the front anti roll bar installed. Would it be an idea to remove this? Would it help my inner front wheel stay in contact with the ground when cornering?

Pål

thats is a known theory paul, let the front wheels track the surface whilst the rear is responsible for stiffer handling overall.

quite a stiff rear arb is usually needed to do this, and often results in lifting the inner rear wheel on hard cornering, but its outright grip rather than forward traction thats more at risk so overall pace can still be improved.

and of course on a 33, this usually means a bit of a custom build item for rear arb.

[Brovold]

As you know, I have Intrax suspention with 40 clicks adjustment on damping from Full Open to Block. In front I differ due to the conditions on raceday (20 clicks on a normal day, 25-30 clicks on warm/sticky day), but in rear i use 39 clicks. I can change to stiffer springs, but what else can I do (except front anti roll bar)?

With the cage inside stiffening in the rear, is there an idea to weld a bar crossover on the damper tower? This is not needed in front I would guess, due to the construction of the enginge bay? Or....??

Pål

[PETROLHEAD]

Yeah i agree with your theory that the second bulkhead in our engine bay would be bracing already, but, that hasn't stopped other folk using a front strut brace aswell, so i should think there is still a benefit to be had from that.

This is all assuming it stays dry by the way, if the heavens open like your first event, then back it all way off again and soften her up for more grip and traction.

very few folk can find a happy medium once you're into track built specials, it goes on and on for years!

[Brovold]

Have not found a 3-bolt front strut brace anywhere, only 4-bolt, so might have to make one...

After the flip last year smashing the right side, and the crash on the left this year, I think an 4 wheel allignment is in order also.

Anyone have any ideas on neg camber in the rear? I have fixed axel and drum breaks back there...

Also happy to hear any tip on amount camber/toe in front

[Johnboy]

Right
The rear drums are bolted on with three bolts each side, so what the race boys do is put say two washers on the bottom and one on top. I would play around with thicknesses to get the right angle as for bracing the rear shock towers go for it . you can brace from the top of towers or Chris cross from top to bottom with two tubes .
Hope this helps

[Johnboy]

Here one way you can brace the rear

[Brovold]

Remember I have a full cage, so not sure if I need more support in the back? Here is some old pics showing the cage

[Brovold]

Any inputs from you racers on camber, toe, front/back? I see that I can change caster if I flip the top mount 180 dgr (they lean back now, but could get it more upright if flipped)

And also, is there an easy fix on changing from drum brakes to disk on rear axel? Is it bolt on, or do I need to change the axel also?

Pål

[PETROLHEAD]

Any inputs from you racers on camber, toe, front/back? I see that I can change caster if I flip the top mount 180 dgr (they lean back now, but could get it more upright if flipped)

And also, is there an easy fix on changing from drum brakes to disk on rear axel? Is it bolt on, or do I need to change the axel also?

Pål

Hi Paul

if you have the front shock bolt holes slotted slightly at the hub mount end, 3 upper hole slotted, bottom hole left alone as the pivot point, you can achieve a little camber adjustment, but for a track sud/sprint/33, i would only go between 1 and 3 degrees of camber, and just 1 degree toe out using your steering arm adjustments, if you feel that necessary too.


as for the rear brakes, a gutted P4 axle is one route to disc rear brakes, you could also fit a sud axle which all had discs and adequate braking, but the suspension mounts are all slightly different for both of those solutions, so unless you fit some custom coilovers into the inner arch at the same time you could be making more work than necessary.


if i recall one project correctly, they used the inner/back of the drum, turned down on a lathe, as the mounting plate for a stub axle hub from something such as a 145, 146, 155 era car

it turned out quite well i think, but was costly as they weren't doing their own engineering.



this does lead to one question though Paul, and that is, do you really need to upgrade to discs?


historically, even standard rear brakes on track/race suds etc were wound off to alomst have no effect at all, as they are known to over brake the rear end and easily lock up a lightened car.

at best i would expect that if you got a nice rear disc set up you would soon fit a bias valve to remove all but minimum pressure to the rears to prevent locking the back wheels.




food for thought maybe.....

[Brovold]

Regarding the rear brakes, I have a valve, but it's wide open and I feel full control of the back when braking. Must check the pads then....

I hope to allign the front during the summer, so will try your setup petrolhead

[Brovold]

Some pics from last race

[Oggie]

Hi Brovold,

I have just finished installing rear disc brakes on my S2 33, I have used a series 3 ABS version (available in Portugal and some other European countries).
It was a straight swap regarding the stub axles but the abs comes with a caliper mounting bracket also the stub axle is alot thicker with larger bearings.

I have not driven the car enough to notice any braking performance differences but after a MOT last week my braking performance is now even between the 2 rear wheels which was poor on the offside when I had drum brakes fitted.

I made my own brake lines using a brake flaring tool £30 and £18 worth of brake line tubing, a bargain compared to getting a garage to do it.

Regarding rear camber , the stub axle has 4 bolts not 3 and all you need to do is fit washers or make a shim to space the 2 bottom bolts out from the hub face.
I have taken some pictures of the process but it really is self explanatory once you have the parts.

[Brovold]

Great input Oggie!

Reason for asking about the rear camber is to make sure use of washers have been done and is safe to do. The idea has been there, but I havent dared yet.

Will also check rear brake disk as option, but need to inspect the pads first. I might have some more brakes just by changing them (have the old, original ones)

Pål

[SteffenJ3316V]

Have a look at Ferodo DS 2500 pads. From what i hear they should do the job

[Brovold]

Have a look at Ferodo DS 2500 pads. From what i hear they should do the job

Not able to find rear break shoe (drum) from Ferodo, just pads...

I have some new stock shoes, so will try them first if I don't find some upgrades

Pål

[SteffenJ3316V]

If you can find them the drums on a 33 S1 is bigger

[Brovold]

Nice visit on the farm yesterday...not by one, but two 4C's

And I got to drive it - still smiling

[Brovold]